Pete (the box slayer) rebuild

∆
Sounds sensible idea to have q&a during build up then cut/paste/edit anything worthwhile into a pinned topic ...
Due to amount of important bits that will be new or almost new and lack of major large debris through gears they should be fine, 3rd would of had some stress as reverse was catching but no external signs on gears to worry about.
Using spare casing and best used parts you got along with par, new bearings etc should see box that'll have no issue with low 400hp unless unlucky .
Don't think anyone will hold you responsible and can't do worse so crack on and get this man out the sh1t and on the track killing evos rather than itself lol .

If it lasts 10 miles then that's how it is, it's not your fault it's just shit luck! I can see how attentive you've been with it so far and I know you're doing your best so that's more thank good enough for me. Just glad I've got you to help me out on this! Fingers crossed though it does last!

I think it will be fine, you guys understandably stressed from grief of last builder. Be sure do a break in for around 400 miles (with mid point oil inspection) before going silly as can pick up any signs of a fault before it fatal plus it allows gears lap in and everything settle in a bit .

[quote="Mr B"]I think it will be fine, you guys understandably stressed from grief of last builder. Be sure do a break in for around 400 miles (with mid point oil inspection) before going silly as can pick up any signs of a fault before it fatal plus it allows gears lap in and everything settle in a bit .[/quote

Would different grade of oil be used for the bed in?

Sounds good once done re post edited version . All I say it for is not just this thread but many if your showing someone or searching on your phone places I live lack good 4g and I trawl pages to find the answer.
Pete is like yourself a good lad and although he would be gutted I know he personally would never blame you your as your effort so far is above and beyond keep up the good work

Cheers mate,

PartyPete wrote:

Mr B wrote:I think it will be fine, you guys understandably stressed from grief of last builder. Be sure do a break in for around 400 miles (with mid point oil inspection) before going silly as can pick up any signs of a fault before it fatal plus it allows gears lap in and everything settle in a bit .[/quote

Would different grade of oil be used for the bed in?

I would use a gl4 or 5 75/90 semi synthetic at most and cheapish brand such as maybe coma for you in UK.
First drain is just check nothing nasty happening, second drain at end of break-in a double check and flushes out any debris.
Used crossed gears and shot peened par gears need time wear in. New syncs same and they can take a few thousand miles before best shifting . Casual slow driving first don't rush it fast shift for while ...

Mr B wrote:

PartyPete wrote:

Mr B wrote:I think it will be fine, you guys understandably stressed from grief of last builder. Be sure do a break in for around 400 miles (with mid point oil inspection) before going silly as can pick up any signs of a fault before it fatal plus it allows gears lap in and everything settle in a bit .[/quote

Would different grade of oil be used for the bed in?

I would use a gl4 or 5 75/90 semi synthetic at most and cheapish brand such as maybe coma for you in UK.
First drain is just check nothing nasty happening, second drain at end of break-in a double check and flushes out any debris.
Used crossed gears and shot peened par gears need time wear in. New syncs same and they can take a few thousand miles before best shifting . Casual slow driving first don't rush it fast shift for while ...

'Casual slow driving' 'dont rush it'
Pete's brain will shut down trying to process this anomaly

Measured the following baulk ring clearances with feeler blades (as new 1.0-1.35mm, wear limit 0.7 mm)

3rd, 1.19mm!
4th, 0.89mm,
5th, 0.79 (can hopefully be replaced with Pete's spare)

1st; needs the  gear from PAR,
2nd; inner and outer cones require a dial indicator which I'll do at work tomorrow,
Reverse;  TBA when I get the spare assembly.

Measured the baulk wear on the 2nd gear (dual cone) synchro,
As new is 0.6-0.8mm, wear limit 0.2mm

Pete's 1st box
Dim A (inner)=0.4mm
Dim B (outer)=0.8

Pete's 2nd box
Dim A (inner)=0.45mm
Dim B (outer)=0.85

So the 2nd gear synchro from both boxes are fine, however Pete's 2nd box has greater clearances so i'll go with that,    

Great stuff, looking like good news so far then

yep, things are starting to look up,

Even tho the parts looked clean I've soaked them in degreaser overnight and give them all a good scrub.
It's amazing how much extra crap there is hidden in the crevices.
Anyway, all squeaky clean and ready to start assembling tomorrow,

Looking good!! I'll post those bits out to you at the start of next week Neil

Started the input shaft rebuild this morning using a small amount of MPZ lube on all friction surfaces.
3rd input gear assembled, endplay was 0.23 - 0.254 around the gear. Spec states 0.23-0.43 so it's well in even with the 0.025 run-out error.
Snap ring groove clearance less than 0.1mm so all fine.


Went on to assemble 4th and it's a different story .
Synchro clearance was 0.99mm!! Spec states 0.25-0.55,
Groove clearance (gear float) 0.178!! Spec states 0.00-0.06
So Pete you need a new and thicker thrust washer. I'll measure the one you have at work next week and work out the size you need.

Howdo!

Firstly wow! Good skills, it's great to see when people can come together and help each other out, hope the final build works well!

I've just started my own build thread - http://www.gtir-motorsport-club.com/t6762-mreguest-s-gearbox-issues#100068

hopefully there's some good pictures in my album that will help everyone and I will be adding more as I go along. I have fully dismantled my box but don't intend on rebuilding it for a while.

Pete if you want any brand new bits for a gearbox that you see in my pictures just ask, I've got loads of bearings, baulk rings, springy things etc... enough to rebuild a few boxes but I have no intension of building my two boxes for a while, so would happily sell some of it as long as I can find replacements. Some parts have taken months to find/arrive but it doesn't matter as long as it's guaranteed stock...

Something which is interesting and worth noting are the 'shifting springs' between 3rd/4th gear. Don't know if you have them on fancy PPG/PAR/Quaife etc, but all three of mine broke when 3rd/4th selector fork broke. Now I couldn't tell you exactly if they are part of the selector fork breaking problem or simply break as a result of the fork breaking... However I can tell you Nissan changed the design many years ago to reduce some slack/movement, and they have been the hardest part ever to find stock... Probably because they fit nearly every
1990-1995 nissan gearbox known to man, and it's not just GTIRs that fail 3rd gear

these:
DSC_2037 by edward guest, on Flickr

DSC_2046 by edward guest, on Flickr

in this picture the broken 3rd/4th ones are part number ending E01, brand new ones are E04 with extra 'springy wings' to reduce movement, E00 are my old 5th/rev in perfect condition.

DSC_0040 by edward guest, on Flickr

DSC_0044 by edward guest, on Flickr

Take a quick read of my thread... I will be watching yours with eyes wide open, and probably asking many (daft) questions... I will start to list my dismantle in chronological order one day soon. Maybe when Pete's gearbox is finished everyone can chip in and hopefully create a full gearbox overhaul thread.

If you need any pictures from mine loading on here just say, good luck with it all!

Cheers,
Adam

Hi Adam and thanks for the info, ive had a look at your post and its a really good read. It looks like you have the right kit and you know what you're doing.
Top tip regarding the 3rd/4th synchro springs, i didnt realise they had been updated.
Its definitley an upgrade Pete should have. How much did they cost?
Thanks for the kind offer of parts, thats a rep point mate  
If it still stands Could you measure the thickness of your input shaft thrust washer? Its the two C shaped split parts. Pete's is 4.48mm thick but needs to be 4.66mm.

One of our aims is to create a full overhaul thread once this rebuild is complete so the more help the better.

Are those upgrated gears i saw in the photos? They dont look like oem, quaife or PAR.

Pete, as mentioned in the above post I measured the input shaft thrust washer at 4.48mm, which means you need to replace it with one at 4.66mm to reduce the synchro clearance and gear float to spec

thrust washer things are both 4.50mm

DSC_0057 by edward guest, on Flickr

part numbers and measurements:

3227803E01
SELECT T=4.500mm

3227803E02
SELECT T=4.525mm

3227803E03
SELECT T=4.550mm

3227803E04
SELECT T=4.575mm

there's no 4.66mm... what does This mean?

one of the 3 springy things was about $20 delivered from UAE, the other two were £6.15 each from UK, I picked them up locally...

I have 6 more guaranteed from USA (so they say) at about $6 each + tax + post. I will email the USA and find an update. I'll then work out the average price of them delivered and we'll go from there...

Question - if i took my box apart and forgot to feeler gauge measure the thicknesses of various gaps, then replaced all the bearings with identical ones (measured to 0.01mm), then put it all back together should it all just fit and not matter that I didn't measure things?

The only new gear you spotted is quaife third, coincidentally bought off Pete...

Cheers!

This means Pete might have a problem with his PAR 4th gear.
The dimension to the synchro face must be 0.6mm undersized at nominal and the gear hub is still 0.05mm undersized against the thickest washer Nissan supply.
I'll remove the PAR gear and have it inspected to benchmark against stock 4th.
If it doesn't closely match OEM then i wont fit it.

Cosmic73 wrote:This means Pete might have a problem with his PAR 4th gear.
The width to the synchro face is 0.6mm undersized and the gear hub is 0.15 undersized
I'll remove the PAR gear and have it inspected to benchmark against stock 4th.
If it's out then it needs to go back to PAR.

Are the undersize from manufacture do you think?

shroom wrote:

Cosmic73 wrote:This means Pete might have a problem with his PAR 4th gear.
The width to the synchro face is 0.6mm undersized and the gear hub is 0.15 undersized
I'll remove the PAR gear and have it inspected to benchmark against stock 4th.
If it's out then it needs to go back to PAR.

Are the undersize from manufacture do you think?

I can't see how it could be any other way.
3rd/4th hub is stock, so as far as i'm concerned it's inconceivable that this would be out of spec by such a large amount.
That only leaves the PAR gear and/or input shaft. but there's only one way to prove it.

Hey Pete,
I measured the following on those 5th/reverse spare parts you sent;
5th baulk clearance 1.015mm, this is much better then the 0.787mm you had,
Reverse baulk clearance >1.2mm
C washer 4.48mm no difference,  

So, the input shaft assy only needs the PAR 4th gear v stock comparing,

Cosmic73 wrote:Hey Pete,
I measured the following on those 5th/reverse spare parts you sent;
5th baulk clearance 1.015mm, this is much better then the 0.787mm you had,
Reverse baulk clearance >1.2mm
C washer 4.48mm no difference,  

So, the input shaft assy only needs the PAR 4th gear v stock comparing,

Ok cheers, so what is the worst outcome likely to be once you've measured these parts?

PartyPete wrote:

Cosmic73 wrote:Hey Pete,
I measured the following on those 5th/reverse spare parts you sent;
5th baulk clearance 1.015mm, this is much better then the 0.787mm you had,
Reverse baulk clearance >1.2mm
C washer 4.48mm no difference,  

So, the input shaft assy only needs the PAR 4th gear v stock comparing,

Ok cheers, so what is the worst outcome likely to be once you've measured these parts?

Either the PAR input shaft width is too wide or PAR 4th gear too thin.
Worst case, the error is too big and we send the input shaft, 4th or both back to PAR,
Middle case, we live with it and shim it up,
Best case, the PAR parts would fit correctly.