mapping a gtr arggggggh

ah right
im not sure what I opened it in as saved it to a file then clicked open

il try print some of it off tomorrow and take a pic of it, its the easiest way I reckon
its about 28 print pages long lol

Whytie wrote:5k to sort dash offt

Summer time I'll decide, it's a lot of money but you only live once.

that was my thought davie
if you don't like it you can always sell it on again providing you don't smash it, theres been a fair few written off now, they definitely do not drive themselves there a bit of an animal and you could easily crash one if your not on the ball
next summer you should be able to pick one up sub 30k

Have you got the program that  reads your ecu  ....bit like fiatecuscan  with a cable to your laptop .....however i did download the cobb gtr manual ...very intresting read that .

yes that's all part of the ap manager (handset) it plugs into diagnostic socket and accesses every single piece of info from ecu

you can even download the latest gearbox software for different launch controls etc from the latest model cars
theres nothing it does not tell you about the cars ecu's

theres even a gearbox learn feature which runs the box through all the gears whilst vehicle is stationary and it adjusts all the gear selectors and meshing components to avoid excess wear
amazing stuff really

Yes i saw that feature ....pretty amazing ....it goes to show how far things have moved on into mainstream ..... i wonder how many maps you can do in a day as regards to just tweaking  even two in a day its more than than most earn in a week ....dont get me wrong its a complex job .

yes true
every map he writes could be worth thousands of pounds to him
stage 1,2,3,4,4.5,5
then all the other bespoke and revised maps for the big power cars and some are lmost 1600bhp  

think we can safely say the guy must be minted  

Im definatley in the wrong job ...... i reckon you are right bob i bet he wioes hes bum with 50 pound notes lol

well finally managed to download the map onto the car waheeeeey!
I had turned the ac off but climate control and audio was still on which was locking out the map load


will take it for a drive in a minute to see how much quicker it is

Wow simple things like that effect the map?

no they stop you downloading the map though!

Leighton..............just sent you another attachment of datalog to try put on here, well part of it, if you scroll down the data you will see vehicle speed in 3rd at 119.8mph that section is the bit that needs to be put on here so dave can see the parameters at wot in 3rd.
the thing I sent you yesterday was the map doh! so you couldn't open it probably as it was locked by the guy who wrote it to stop people sharing the maps

once ive driven it for a few days il get another datalog and should be able to see the differences in performance in the later revised map, itll even give you 0-60 times, vehicle bhp @ wheels etc

OK, I've got Bob's power run log open, and am in the process of making some graphs to compare with a GTiR run to approximately the same speed. Should be an interesting comparison!  

I'll post the images/graphs up here once they're complete.

Cheers,
Dave

Just a quick plot to show Bob's speed and acceleration with time. Obviously this was not a flat-out run from 0-119 MPH as the speed levels off for a while before he guns it at around 19 seconds (presumably in 3rd?). Nice to see you can still hit around 0.7g in 3rd  



Cheers,
Dave

Or a new one showing the engine speed (RPM) and air/fuel ratios. Looking at the log, it seems to maintain a nice closed loop around the stoichiometric value (14.7) until you stamp on the gas. The A/F ratio dropping to ~12 isn't too bad, and a LOT better than our GTiRs do as standard.....................



Cheers,
Dave

thanks for doing this dave, much appreciated  
il send you a new log sometime next week with a flatout run from launch to flat out in 3rd
think youll find the results from the log far more impressive than with the old map as she really flies now
.7g in third though is quite impressive even with the old map
now its facial distortion especially from a launch lol

Or another one showing the boost response with engine speed. We will be able to tell more once we get a full 0-120 run, but those turbos give 19psi almost immediately (even if you are starting from 4000rpm).



Cheers,
Dave

yeah the turbo response is immediate on them as soon as you touch the throttle boost comes in hard.

will be interesting to see the graphs (especially latest one once ive done a log) compared to a big powered pulsar, as you would be able to learn a lot from the new map with regards to ironing out a few flaws on some gtirs

dave.............il be doing another datalog this week assuming the roads are dry that is.
the mapping guy wants to check it over to compare with the old log so il forward you a copy of the log for your records too as will be interesting how the graph appears overlaid with the old.

GTI-R US wrote:dave.............il be doing another datalog this week assuming the roads are dry that is.
the mapping guy wants to check it over to compare with the old log so il forward you a copy of the log for your records too as will be interesting how the graph appears overlaid with the old.

No problem at all Bob. I'll make a few graphs to show the old vs new for a variety of things: boost, speed, acceleration, A/F, etc.

Should be interesting to see the difference!
Dave

Hi Bob,

OK, this is a slightly tricky comparison to make. If I were comparing before+after fuel/timing maps, then they are absolute quantities which don't depend on road conditions, weather, and whether or not the police are pointing a speed gun towards you Therefore I have had to have a play with the logs to try and find an "even" starting point. To give exact details of what I have done, here is the process:

1 - Looked at the before+after maps to find where FULL throttle is being used. I looked at the logs for throttle position (ie 100% at WOT), boost (maxing at around 18psi), and wastegate duty (ie 100% at max boost), to make sure that the car was indeed at FULL throttle. This gave me a section of the before+after maps to examine in closer detail.

2 - On the 'before' log, you started FULL throttle 19.5 seconds into the log at a speed of 53 MPH. On the 'after' log, you were at FULL throttle and at a speed of 53 MPH 23.9 seconds into the log. Therefore, to make the starting points equal (ie 53 MPH), I simply brought the 'after' map forward in time by (23.9-19.5)  4.4 seconds to make them directly comparable.

3 - Then (apologies for the mathematics), I converted your speed from MPH to m/s, differentiated it with respect to time (ie dv/dt), then scaled it by the acceleration due to gravity (g), to provide the acceleration in terms of g.

Below you will find the resulting graph, where:

solid black line = speed of 'before' run
dashed black line = speed of 'after' run
red solid line = acceleration of 'before' run
red dashed line = acceleration of 'after' run



You will see that immediately your 'after' GTR jumps in speed and acceleration compared to the 'before' run. On the 'new' map, your acceleration in third gear is more than 0.8g! Quite an achievement! However, then things get a little more strange. After a time of around 1.5 seconds, you will see that your 'after' speed rises exactly at the same rate as your 'before' speed. This is confirmed when you look at the acceleration lines (red colour), since after around 1.5 seconds they are more-or-less identical. Bells started ringing in my head that this doesn't seem right considering the new tune should be a significant improvement over the 'before' one. I would have expected the 'after' speed line to continue getting further-and-further away from the 'before' speed line due to more power and better acceleration. Looking at the 'after' log in more detail seems to suggest that your ECU detects a knock event around this time. As I don't have all the maps to hand, I am wondering if this knock detection dropped your GTR onto another (less intense) timing/fueling map? As you mentioned to me, this may not necessarily be engine knock, but perhaps a rattle from the bellhousing? A detected knock (and subsequent transfer to another map) would explain the marginal drop (it's still providing about 0.6g of acceleration!) in power/acceleration. Of course, I don't know what the road conditions, etc., were like. The reduction in acceleration could also be attributed to other things, such as a slight hill or traction control cutting in.

I'll continue to have a look at other things, but I thought you'd like to see some preliminary things now.

Many thanks, and I'm interested to hear your thoughts,
Dave

cheers for taking a look at this dave
yes from the datalog figures (prior to you converting to graph) I could make head nor tail of it as you say somethings were just not in comparison at all or were worse yet other things had increased in value which is why I contacted ben who wrote the map.

he just replied ''false knock being detected get bellhousing rattle fixed'' no explanation or anything  
so I contacted him again asking if the false knock detected would be retarding ignition and limiting boost once detected (similar to gtir system) and no reply as of yet so my guess is as good as yours.

I contacted Litchfield today as the bellhousing mod was only carried out last year and is still under warranty so im taking car back to them and they will replace it under warranty, lian said they have never had one fail before so looks like mines the first lol

once this has been replaced il do another datalog to see if theres a better comparison to be had as it certainly seems to me to be going into safe mode once the rattle is detected by knock sensor.

really appreciate your time and effort with this dave, I would not have a clue how to get these graphs together and it makes everything that much easier to read and get comparisons by.

I will get there in the end, like the gtir its a big road of discovery and identifying key points which are causing probs
many thanks  

So whats the mod to the bell housing then ......un like bob you  totaly lost me after you  said graph   ....you also  have a pm dave .

basically unlike a gtir or conventional system the bellhousing is attached to the engine but gearbox is at the rear of car for better weight distribution.

the bellhousing contains a fly plate which attaches to crank pulley spigot then drive is transferred through engine and fly/balance plate to the g/f propshaft then to gearbox at rear

on stock bellhousings they had a problem with play occurring between the fly plate and bearing in the bellhousing so Litchfield came up with the idea of a wormscrew to eliminate the prob and stop wear from outer bearing wrase to casting of bellhouse itself.
but in the case of my car it hasn't worked very well lol
as play and a rattling noise is noticeable at idle (bit like worn springs in a clutch centre plate if you've ever heard that noise)

just got back from litchfields after leaving at 6am........5 half bloody hours to get there as major accident on m25 this morning  
anyways iain gets the car on the lift and guess what.....no play in the bellhousing  

after chatting to him what was happening with car picking up false knock and retarding ignition he worked out that it was pulling back around 4 degrees of ignition with the knock values I had been showing.
yet nothings coming up on the engine as knock, everythings 100% working fine so its all a bit of a mystery at the moment.
he suggested it could even be a dodgy tank of v power as hes seen knock values rise alarmingly with poor fuel in the past so im going to run another datalog next week and see what happens with that as im kind of stuffed with it at the moment as not getting the full power the car should be at running stage 4.5  

in all fairness to iain at Litchfield though, he did say if it still doesn't work and theres any inkling its a bellhousing related prob he would honour the warranty and replace it, which I thought was very good of him

what a fookin week this has turned out to be lol

Sounds like a nightmare of a day Bob  

But ill tell you the problem now..... Its got 2 turbo's strapped to it  

yeah it is annoying gaz.......the thing is ballistic as it is (as you well know) but it should still be much faster than that, I just want to get to the bottom of what the problem is as something clearly isn't right if its pulling ignition back.........this is what gives you the big torque and chuck back in seat affect and I want it back, I need it to help with my facelift