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None starter!

+10
Indy
GTI-R US
pulsarmoley
luke s
nomad
Mr B
ROB_IOW
gtir_woody
Stu
PartyPete
14 posters

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26None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 30th April 2015, 9:41 am

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician

around 13<>13.5v is not uncommon on a battery that had recent charge cycle & like luke pointed out is surface charge.
standing battery would read between 12.4<>12.7v
battery after charge will read around 13.2v for some time, normally takes 12hrs before true standing voltage can be read.
Only way battery gets excessive voltage is if alternator voltage regulator faulty so that needs testing to be sure of charge status from alternator.
If battery over charging it possible cells are dry, sealed battery would be scrap in that circumstance.
My hunch is starter unit issue or wiring. Hard to be conclusive with details so far.

27None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 30th April 2015, 12:36 pm

Indy



I was thinking starter motor is stuck correct me if I'm wrong

28None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 30th April 2015, 12:56 pm

Daniel232006



Once I figure out i'll let you know what it is Smile
If it is the starter motor I'll shout you for the part - Cheers bob!

29None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 30th April 2015, 6:26 pm

gtir_pimp

gtir_pimp

I had a similar problem in my mates evo recently. He had a new starter motor put on less than 2000 miles ago as the old one failed, which we thought was just due to old age as its done 140k.

So a while later the starter motor starts playing up and gets worse as time goes on. Then Sunday night the car dies on me while driving along, got it back and the computer said it was the crank angle sensor.

A faulty crank angle sensor can fuck a starter motor, which I didn't know until today. The teeth don't disengage when the cas is faulty so it burns the wires and solenoid leading to starting issues. 

The evo would also start easily when I used a jump pack on the car just like your pulsar is, probably because it's putting a bit more voltage down the burnt out wires but I could be wrong

30None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 30th April 2015, 7:21 pm

Daniel232006



With my limited (zero) knowledge I'm still struggling - I'll get a car electrical guy to take a peak at the weekend for me and learn something for next time lol...:O)
So many wires, fuses etc to check with a multi meter its a maze!!

31None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 30th April 2015, 8:39 pm

nomad

nomad
Admin
Admin

So how far have you got daniel ???? If you tell us step by step we maybe help you eliminate it one by one ...


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32None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 1st May 2015, 9:05 am

Daniel232006



From what I can see battery is fine, Fuel reg is fine, Fuel pump fine, Spark plugs fine - the solinoid Click is there.
I'm struggling to check all the fuses as I'm not confident yet at what i'm looking at...
I know where the alternator is - but trying to spot the starter motor is another issue!?
So many wires and sensors...it just going to take a while to get my head around it - its like being back at school Neutral

33None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 1st May 2015, 9:43 am

Stu

Stu
Admin
Admin

Starter motor is behind the engine.
If you reach around the back from inside the engine bay passenger side. You will feel it.
It sits about 10 inches bellow the plenum.


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34None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 1st May 2015, 10:15 am

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician

Is a cock to get to starter, I would say it worn solenoid mechanism not throwing fully. Ideally need look at wiring on starter & check voltages/earth.
you could try tapping the solenoid a bit with a bar or something as sometimes a few taps gets the solenoid to work & then you know for sure what it is & can drive to garage to get replaced if unable do yourself.

35None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 1st May 2015, 10:40 am

nomad

nomad
Admin
Admin

Ive done my starter twice now .. as said its abit of a pig to get to but is certainly do -able its a pig shit if you have the y bracket still fitted wich you got to get off first then throw it in anger followed by kicking it around the work area never to be fitted again ... bolts for the starter go through the gearbox side so thats not too bad ....


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36None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 1st May 2015, 11:21 am

nomad

nomad
Admin
Admin

None starter! - Page 2 STARTER
Marked c is where the y braket bolts are if you still have it that is
b is starter motor bolts..
a is gearbox mount bolts


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37None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 1st May 2015, 1:59 pm

Daniel232006



Thats great - good news is my bracket was already taken off :O)
Bob is posting out a starter motor for me today - so I'll see how I get on.

38None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 1st May 2015, 2:15 pm

ROB_IOW

ROB_IOW
the two star club
the two star club

Have you tried push starting it? ? Does it actually run?

39None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 1st May 2015, 5:43 pm

shroom

shroom
moderator
moderator

ROB_IOW wrote:Have you tried  push starting it? ?   Does it actually run?

Yes I was going to suggest this. Might be worth a go just to check

40None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 1st May 2015, 5:47 pm

johnny gtir

johnny gtir
moderator
moderator

I rocked mine in gear and tapped it with bar and it freed it off couple times just to confirm it was starter

41None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 2nd May 2015, 2:32 pm

Daniel232006



Good news - I managed to start it today (bump started) no problem - runs fine...took it out for a quick blast...idle and everything else is as it should be.
Bob has already posted a starter motor and Solinoid - just in case (sound like I might want a spare anyway)
I've been through all the fuses which all look good.
The only suspect one is the blue 25230 - C9980 relay by your right knee(there are 3 of them)
There is also the brown relay under the bonnet passenger side.
If these need changing where can I get them from??
I feel like I am learning something about the car now - so enjoying fiddling - feeling good I got it started so I know the fault is between the key and the starter motor!

42None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 2nd May 2015, 2:54 pm

Stu

Stu
Admin
Admin

I would swap the starter motor over anyways. Then if it does happen again you can almost rule that out Wink
Bob should have relays.


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43None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 2nd May 2015, 3:01 pm

nomad

nomad
Admin
Admin

If you can hear it click but doesnt turn over then i would say its only the starter at fault ... ie jammed or chuffed .... you can always get it off and test it with a set of jump leads off the battery to check it ......


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44None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 2nd May 2015, 3:06 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician

Issue not the 'key to starter' as you put it.
Key is actually supplying the 12v+ to the solenoid when in crank position, as you can here solenoid click you can suspect it probably ok, is possible poor joint/plug at starter for that solenoid trigger  not supply enough current.
But more than likely worn solenoid not throwing correctly & engaging the high currrent contact to drive the motor, could also be motor/brushes gone or high current wiring to motor fault but that quick test with multimeter.
Will be easy to conclude, if can't do it yourself either get a mobile mechanic out or drop it in trustworthy garage.
As long as y bracket already off then starter motor access is not too bad .

Most time when fault described same as yours it solenoid/worn linkages, just think of the solenoid as a big relay for simplicity.

Edit: Nomad beat me to it :-)

45None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 2nd May 2015, 5:19 pm

nomad

nomad
Admin
Admin

You snooze you loose mr Laughing
i think the worst bit of the job was leaning over and holding the starter motor undoing the wires other than that its not a bad job ... but i have removed a fair bit from that side de cluttered it so access is abit easier anyway ....


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46None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 2nd May 2015, 5:32 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician

nomad wrote:You snooze you loose mr Laughing
No snooze but I still loose Sad lol

47None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 2nd May 2015, 10:56 pm

GTI-R US

GTI-R US
Management
Management

If you can get the car down to me Daniel il change it for you
Will only take half hour or so to do

I'm in for a bit tomorrow if you wanna pop it down


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48None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 3rd May 2015, 1:18 pm

Daniel232006



Cheers Bob - it wont be today but if I'm not sorted by the end of the week ill pop down at the weekend if your about.

49None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 3rd May 2015, 2:10 pm

Daniel232006



Success!! Tested all the fuses and relays - they are all fine and working.
Managed to find the starter motor and gave it a smack while trying to crank it...and she came to life. So its does seem the starter motor is the issue...so at least I know what needs changing 100%.
The only other thing I have spotted it a small amount of water around the gasket...change the gasket asap?? I'm sure its the gasket - its where the join is around the top of the engine...does that make sense?

50None starter! - Page 2 Empty Re: None starter! 3rd May 2015, 2:41 pm

Daniel232006



I don't think the water is an issue - I've wiped it all away...it was just along that seal. But it rained quite heavily last night so I think its just come in through the vents on the bonnet as rested there. cheers everyone for your help - I'm just glad I've tracked down the starter issue!

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