Plug colour?

Had my plugs out last night to alter plug gaps to 0.7 from 0.8 as I was noticing abit of bogging right at top end of rev range. Anyway it sorted my issue so gaps must of been to big for 1 bar of boost at 0.8 so now at 0.7 & all good

But the colour of my plugs are worrying me a little as they look between perfect & a little on the lean side, even tho my wideband is telling me im running abit rich  

What you reckon?

Mine are as similar if not slightly whiter so think yours aren't too bad but I'm sure Bob will confirm this.

Ideally they should be like a brownie coffee colour .

it is a bit lean...but depends on when you cut the engine....after a top end, or at idle...

I cut the engine at idle & im running very rich at idle aswell & rich at WOT on boost so don't understand why they look a little lean?

yes the plugs are overheating gaz which is not good but it isn't necessarily due to not enough fuel, well it is but its far more in depth than just that
 
have you got a fmic fitted sorry cant remember?
what base ignition timing are you running?
are you using v power?
 
to me I would say your ignition may well be too far advanced or it could be to do with the antilag mock up you have with that ecu as the plugs are firing after tdc which gives you the pops and bangs when coming off the throttle.........could be causing a prob so I would keep a close eye on that as your likely to melt the plugs which could pebbledash your pistons and combustion chambers in the head
 
if you have not got one fitted an exhaust gas temperature sensor and gauge is needed really so you can monitor the egt's as that will give you a good indication of cylinder temps

Yep got a front mount, though you would be able to see that in my profile pic  

Ignition timing is set at 20 Degrees
I use Tesco momentum 99 as that's what it was mapped on

Think ill send an email to Ed & see what he reckons as you may be right about the pops & bangs set up. So I may send the ecu back to him to sort it  

yes I would contact ed gaz as its not right and you will damage your engine for sure as something is wrong with those cylinder temps, I reckon if you put an egt gauge on there the readings would be sky high

Isn't base timing supposed to be 18? Would it actually matter though as they timing can be adjusted on the ECU through nistune right?

Just emaild him so ill see what he can do. Cheers for the help

Ill look into a EGT senser then, best to be safe than sorry  

yes timing is adjusted through the map but its possible at certain points theres too much ignition advance which will cause pinking/knock levels to rise so may need to be backed off
 
in a nutshell the more fuel/air/ignition you can run the faster the car will be but its a very fine line if you over do it
 
I don't know what ed does to the map to get the antilag effect but that could possibly be causing a problem so as said its best to contact him

btw if you need an egt sensor and gauge then I have a greddy one..........not trying to flog you something gaz but think you could really do with one

Ok that's clears that up cheers.

He datalogged the map when I sen him the ecu & he said it was all ok! so I don't know?

& he backs the timing OFF on over run & add a little fuel aswell. But it only pops & bangs if you rest your foot on the throttle, if throttle is fully closed on over run its just as normal, NO pops & bangs

Ok how much for the EGT set up then Bob? or should I speak to clare?  

yes so basically hes just adding fuel and when you open the throttle slightly its allowing it to burn after tdc
thing is is the fuel igniting in the cylinders??? as somethings causing those plugs to overheat.
if it was just popping out flames then that would be igniting outside of the cylinders (similar to a flamer kit) but I would suspect yours is igniting after tdc when piston is on exhaust stroke which could cause a prob if so
the egt will tell all though

£80 delivered gaz incl of paypal fees which is saving you about £15 on what I listed it for

Yep its throwing flames out of exhaust, as ive seen it light up the road & freands saying did I see the flames lol

But also could be ignighting in the cylenders like you say? Ill send ecu back to Ed & get him to check it out!

Ill have to take a miss on the EGT at mo as im on my arse skint as im losing hours at work  
But car is going away shortly for winter so it will be on my list of things to get ready for next year!

Ill see what Ed can do for now tho

Ok just had a reply from Ed! & this is what he said.
"Plugs look rich and they dont look too hot to me, in fact temp looks nearly perfect."

So im confused now?   lol

the tips and electrodes are white lol
now that's not right, the plugs should be a dark brown colour edging towards being a little sooty

GTI-R US wrote:the tips and electrodes are white lol
now that's not right, the plugs should be a dark brown colour edging towards being a little sooty

That's exactly what I thought Bob?

Don't rely on spark plug appearance as plugs are often black on unleaded fuels whether the mixture is rich or lean.

http://www.bp.com/retail/liveassets/bp_internet/retail_new/retail_new_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads_pdfs/0_999/TunningCarstorunonPetrolv4.pdf

Think old skool days of reading plugs on unleaded are gone..
You tip looks fine, black base of soot, and no deposits on ceramic insulator. And the 'shoulder' of the tip (where it starts fading to black) is spot on!


#1 Is a timing indicator, you'll see a definite color change on the ground strap, it doesn't show well here but you can still see it right about at the arrow.  Too much timing and the color change will be very close to the threaded body of the plug, too little and it'll be closer to the tip.  Ideally we want it right in the apex or center of the 90 bend on the ground strap.  This plug shows too much timing for the combustion chamber efficiency or octane level.

The color might be there, but you'll need a magnifying glass as deposits are less..

http://www.jetsrus.com/FAQs/FAQ_spark_plugs.htm

http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/forums/showflat.php?Number=230349

So trust your electronic wideband, then check the plugs longer down the line when more deposits have built up..
I have to say the tip of your plugs look 'light grey', which is good..

Cheers for the info dan, but them links are still saying my electrodes are still to white which is a sign of getting to hot? Or am I missing something?

They should be a buiscuit brown colour.

The link pictures are for leaded, they're old. Yours will get that colour eventually after 100s of miles, as the lead is what makes the colour.

I just linked as on each one they mention unleaded is harder to read.

jetsrus: Unleaded fuel and ethanol fuels like E85 make reading plugs a bit more difficult because they burn cleaner and leave fewer deposits on the plug. Confirming readings with a wide-band oxygen sensor and/or quarter mile times is a good idea.

Biscuit brown to 'light grey', the electrode is say medium grey stock, so yours looks like light grey
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/p3.asp?mode=nml

What is the colour of the insulator at the base (side on)?

There's lots of arguments about it all, lol ;_) http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/373486-rough-running-07-yz450f/

Email Ed and ask how he can tell? And also ask about reading colours on plugs using unleaded. I know Ed gives very succint/short replies sometimes as he's busy, but get him talking technical... :_)

Edit: Also, you don't READ a spark plug unless it's after a top end run and you cut the throttle. Idle temps in the 'R are meaningless, too cold to do any damage, and no fuel or cycles..

The plugs have done arounf 3000 miles, replaced them just before we went on the nurburgring trip in august so they have coverd a few miles.

Ill wait for a reply off Ed tomorrow & then give him a call, But im with Bob on this 1 & think they are running to hot. & like Bob said I need a EGT gauge to see whats occering  

I think you're fine, 3000 miles running lean and you'd have damage, corroded plug tips, metal deposits on insulator etc imho. But will be good to hear the outcome!

I hope its all ok, Cheers for your help & advice dan