Second hand engine

Mr B wrote:I'm on over 10 years & it been at 330 & 345hp for those years & all fine but not huge mileage. If mapped well & serviced well & in good condition to start with a standard lump will handle 350hp with ease.
If it ain't broke don't fix it, doing an engine health check & if all ok get car mapped/checked on rollers by a decent mapper make all the difference between reliability & long term minimal costs.
Without a doubt at low price of CP pistons these days & better head gaskets its hard to find reason not to use them on a rebuild unless on minimal budget.

totally agree with all that
you haven't got to go to town madly on it..........new bearings, hg and set of cp pistons then youll havmuch more reliable engine that's not likely to crack a ringland if the mappings not quite right, so in short will be much more durable.

stock pistons are all old now unless you were to buy new set off mr Nissan which would cost you more than set of forgies, so its a bit of a lottery as to how much longer they are likely to last seeing as there all cast
and deffo go forged if cars to be used on track

GTI-R US wrote:

Mr B wrote:I'm on over 10 years & it been at 330 & 345hp for those years & all fine but not huge mileage. If mapped well & serviced well & in good condition to start with a standard lump will handle 350hp with ease.
If it ain't broke don't fix it, doing an engine health check & if all ok get car mapped/checked on rollers by a decent mapper make all the difference between reliability & long term minimal costs.
Without a doubt at low price of CP pistons these days & better head gaskets its hard to find reason not to use them on a rebuild unless on minimal budget.

totally agree with all that
you haven't got to go to town madly on it..........new bearings, hg and set of cp pistons then youll havmuch more reliable engine that's not likely to crack a ringland if the mappings not quite right, so in short will be much more durable.

stock pistons are all old now unless you were to buy  new set off mr Nissan which would cost you more than  set of forgies, so its a bit of a lottery as to how much longer they are likely to last seeing as there all cast
and deffo go forged if cars to be used on track

I no what you mean bob but if I start doing bearings, hg and pistons it's gonna cost too much as I will have to give it into a garage for the work to be done and I don't no or trust any one around my ends in doing it, if I could do it my self I would have 100% done the bearings, hg and pistons
I think I will get it mapped with standard engine and then if it breaks I will go down the forge route

Am not far from you mate am only in York.

Sir Dangerous Dave wrote:Am not far from you mate am only in York.

What is you do Dave are you a machanic or are you offering to help me out
York's about 45min drive for me I go to totb every year

Either way really,

There is two spots in york I would trust to build me an engine if I was to get someone to do it the first one is Ian Myers he built a lump for me a good 8 years ago for my vw camper an it's still going strong today (I take heads etc to be skim to him) he's an old boy but does a smashing job.

The second is Bernard best, he builds the engines for a few of my mates that run in motorsport. Well priced as well.

I am building a forged engine for one of my cars next year but will be doing this myself to keep the cost down. I can dig there numbers out if you like?

Building an engine isn't rocket science is it, Hone or re-bore fit new pistons and bearings check and measure a few things it shouldn't take more than a couple of days max, I've no idea why some of these so called tuners charge so much, You're better off taking it to your local garage if you have a good one.

The reason why they charge so much is to cover there self if the engine let go .. If the engine doesn't come back they have had a touch but if it does they would have built the engine for free ..

lenzo wrote:The reason why they charge so much is to cover there self if the engine let go .. If the engine doesn't come back they have had a touch but if it does they would have built the engine for free ..

not necessarily the case

when I had my tvr lump built that cost me 6k and came with no warranty whatsoever as its classed as a high performance car.
was andy at apm motorsport in portsmouth that built it who are renowned for there work on tvr's and have a great reputation.
I asked him about warranty and he said there is none due to cars being used on track and so forth, but he said if there is a problem then give him a call as its not in his interest to build rubbish engines but had his word with regard to any kind of warranty was all I had which I accepted, so its a game of trust really.
so far in 2 years the engine has covered less than 500 miles lol so any comeback I may have had is well and truly past its sell by date now   

we always give 3 months warranty with engines we build, but the problems don't always lie with the engine that's been built as theres a lot of other aspects need taking into consideration with an old forced induction performance car such as ancilliary items being fitted are all in gwo, tuning and mapping done correctly, whether the car is used on circuit or for racing as will need a slightly different build up to a road car to aid cooling. so in short its not always the case that if an engine goes pop that its the engine builders fault but obviously they are the first in the firing line until proven otherwise.

as rob said above...........its not rocket science to build your own engine, the main work lies with the engineering company you use with regard to checking the crank thoroughly and making sure its within spec for the shells your using, any reboring and skimming / decking of the block and head, and headwork can be costly but is not needed on a 400hp build.
the rest of it anyone can do if they have
a) a good understanding of how an engine works
b) half a brain to measure tolerances
c) correct tools to do the job
d) a clean dirt free enviorement in which to build the engine

ive seen people with next to no mechanical knowledge build damned good engines because they've researched and and not been afraid to ask questions if they get stuck with something, it costs you nothing to ask and I and others on here are only to willing to help and guide if you need help with anything.

£1200 shouldl be enough to build a descent basic forge engine assuming the main parts are all in good order and serviceable, many of the items you can re-use, its just knowing what you need to buy and what you don't by carrying out certain measurements and checks to see if the existing items are within spec.

so for that reason I would not wait till something goes wrong with the engine you have if its all in good order, and to pay £500 for an unknown s/h engine which you have not seen running is money down the drain that would have paid for a set of cp pistons and a cossie h/g
that's my honest opinion anyways

GTI-R US wrote:

lenzo wrote:The reason why they charge so much is to cover there self if the engine let go .. If the engine doesn't come back they have had a touch but if it does they would have built the engine for free ..

not necessarily the case

when I had my tvr lump built that cost me 6k and came with no warranty whatsoever as its classed as a high performance car.
was andy at apm motorsport in portsmouth that built it who are renowned for there work on tvr's and have a great reputation.
I asked him about warranty and he said there is none due to cars being used on track and so forth, but he said if there is a problem then give him a call as its not in his interest to build rubbish engines but had his word with regard to any kind of warranty was all I had which I accepted, so its a game of trust really.
so far in 2 years the engine has covered less than 500 miles lol so any comeback I may have had is well and truly past its sell by date now   

we always give 3 months warranty with engines we build, but the problems don't always lie with the engine that's been built as theres a lot of other aspects need taking into consideration with an old forced induction performance car such as ancilliary items being fitted are all in gwo, tuning and mapping done correctly, whether the car is used on circuit or for racing as will need a slightly different build up to a road car to aid cooling. so in short its not always the case that if an engine goes pop that its the engine builders fault but obviously they are the first in the firing line until proven otherwise.

as rob said above...........its not rocket science to build your own engine, the main work lies with the engineering company you use with regard to checking the crank thoroughly and making sure its within spec for the shells your using, any reboring and skimming / decking of the block and head, and headwork can be costly but is not needed on a 400hp build.
the rest of it anyone can do if they have
a) a good understanding of how an engine works
b) half a brain to measure tolerances
c) correct tools to do the job
d) a clean dirt free enviorement in which to build the engine

ive seen people with next to no mechanical knowledge build damned good engines because they've researched and and not been afraid to ask questions if they get stuck with something, it costs you nothing to ask and I and others on here are only to willing to help and guide if you need help with anything.

£1200 shouldl be enough to build a descent basic forge engine assuming the main parts are all in good order and serviceable, many of the items you can re-use, its just knowing what you need to buy and what you don't by carrying out certain measurements and checks to see if the existing items are within spec.

so for that reason I would not wait till something goes wrong with the engine you have if its all in good order, and to pay £500 for an unknown s/h engine which you have not seen running is money down the drain that would have paid for a set of cp pistons and a cossie h/g
that's my honest opinion anyways

That bob is really good honest info, I've been doing some research into forge engine builds and the parts I might need
I think what you said bob is true rather than waiting for the engine to go boom, might aswell build a forge engine as I've hot a good engine and base to start from why wait for it to cause more problems in the future

These are the prices I have sourced so far please add on parts you might think I will need

86mm cp piston £350 (eBay)
Cosworth head gasket 1.2mm £115 (eBay) don't no which one I will need 86mm or 87mm
Acl race bearings full set £130 (eBay)
Blueprint full gasket kit £140 (eBay) don't no if i really need this
Apr rod bolts £100 I think (eBay)

What else would you guys think I will need please not it will be a buget build only trying to aim for around 350 bhp would I need to get the block and head checked if it needs skimming as I've read on the net some where to use 800 wet and dry paper with wd40 to clean the block and head surface also will I have to get the crank checked aswell or will I be alright giving it a good inspection before fitting the acl bearing
Please note I no these questions might be common sense or stupid but am new to this that's why am asking so please go easy on me

you can had the bore work (honing), waterpump and timing chain....clutch when all is out,

the arp rod bolts you should be able to get cheaper than £100

hold fire with the cosworth h/g until you have had the block deck and head checked as both need to be 100% flat with mls gasket, very little leaway for error but an engineers straight edge run diagonally will tell you whether these need doing or not but light skim is not expensive, this will ultimately determine the thickness of h/g required.

forget the blueprint gasket set, just renew the valve stem oil seals and lap in existing valves, front main crank seal, rear main crank seal, rc gasket, use a sr20det ex manifold gasket off ebay (about £25), all the other gaskets are high quality sealant such as tigerseal or Loctite 5910 which is what we use.

head bolts you will more than likely be able to reuse because iirc that engine in your car is untouched so they'll be fine to re-use but over-torque them by 5degrees
chain and tensioner and slippers you will more than likely be able to re-use
if the blocks in good nick then check it with a bore dial gauge for runout (il lend you that if you've not got one) then rehone cylinders to accept 86mm stock size pistons IMPORTANT youll need to check ring gaps and adjust if necessary, not hard all you need is a file or a dremmel as I use.

cranks the biggy that needs thorough checkover by engineer as they are proned to having hairline cracks especially on bigend journals but if that's all fine and within spec then just get it polished which will cost you around £30-40
same goes for oil pump, if in doubt then remove coverplate to check rotors and mating plate surfaces.......if badly marked or scored don't skimp out on the pump buy a new one from ericsperformancepartscorp on ebay, infact buy everything from there with the exception of the cossie h/g which I would get over here direct from sumo power, youll save yourself a fair amount of money if the exchange rate is good and you don't get lumbered with import duty.

that's basically all you need, most of it you can do yourself, just have a little confidence in your abilities because as rob said it really isn't hard to do and if you get stuck with anything then theres enough people on here to guide you

is there any lateral play of the crank to check?

yeah if your talking endfloat but tbh gtirs don't normally suffer from this unless its had a real heavy clutch fitted or has been launched multiple times
nothing that a new set of acl thrust bearings wont take out anyway   

listen to bob he knows his stuff when it comes to engine builds  .. I listen to his advice when building my engine and my build turn out sweet with some impressive bhp but have not missed a beat since being built

Ok thanks for that guy reading all the above it doesn't look so hard
Bob would you say it's best to remove the engine first strip it all down and get the block and head checked first also most importantly the bores before I buy any parts at all, don't want to buy 86mm pistons and find out it want reboring to some thing 86.5mm
And also how do you no when the engine is at top dead center as I've read it needs to be at top dead center before stripping the engine down

Thank you guys for all the help so far

Hi mate remove the engine first get the bores check because they mite be worn which you will need a rebore with oversize pistons at the same time get the facese of the block and head are flat once you done all that then you can start ordering pistons size and head gasket . If you are stripping the engine down you have no need to time it up because once you remove the crank the timing will be out once you put the engine together that's when you start your timing