very good all round setup

found out recently through much trial and error (and a very well educated Nissan top technician) that it really is not a good idea to deviate to far from the standard Nissan suspension setup for either fast road or track use
 
as you know ive been doing a lot of track stuff for many years in these cars and have tried virtually every setting in the book (many of which make the car very skittish).
at the end of the day settings will ultimately be dependant on each individuals driving style as none of us drive a car the same way but below is what I and a few others find as the optimum general setup
 
quite simple really
if you basically radicalise all the stock settings slightly (thread above) then you will have a very good handling car.
 
ive now got 1.3 degrees camber front
0.55 degree camber rear
1.5 degree castor front aided by whiteline antidive kit
 
forget all the extreme settings as they just do not work, they may improve one part of the handling but by improving that youll be lacking somewhere else and making the car very skittish.
 
obviously polybushes, rose joints as well as braces etc will help drastically with track use........ but make the car too stiff and it will not handle so well on bumpy twisty b roads so it really is a case of trying a workable all round setting to suit your everyday needs.

if anyone else wants to post up there settings that are known good then it will be interesting to see them to compare

Ive got to get mine done again now ive put camber bolts in front & rear, What would you advise my camber settings front & rear Bob? Coz ive got them nismo shocks on I bought of you or dous that not make a difference?

as above gaz you wont go far wrong with those settings

Ok ill get it set up at that then, You best watch out at nurburgring my pulsar will be eating your GTR threw the bends with this set up 

I know gaz I should have kept it zipped lol

I may even take the pulsar myself, ive not decided yet

Nope, no doubt about it mate take the GTR

What have you found best as to how to set the tracking? Toe in? Toe out?

Like you Bob I've tried lots of different settings and recommended mods etc over the years and tbh I've never once been even nearly happy with how it handles.

Understeer understeer understeer and it's always pushing on mid corner, which I've always put down to the transmission system.

I've got upper braces, lower braces etc etc and I'm leaning towards these making things worse as the car slides across the track rather than twisting and digging in.

The only way I've ever been remotely happy with the handling was down to driving technique and not set-up at all. I found at Bedford that breaking deep into the apex (rather than doing the braking in a straight line) keep the front planted and also helped picked the back end up and kick it round.

im 99% sure he towed out slightly around 6mins and not in as it previously was which had big understeer troubles.

yes braces and over stiffening ive also found makes the car worse for understeer so I only run a top brace and nothing else
your better off with a bit of body flex which seems to help with suspension and makes it work harder (especially noticeable on potholed b roads)
also removing the front arb helps with making suspension work believe it or not, just undo the droplinks when on track and leave the arb floating

your in kent ben, run it down to sly at kaizer and ask him to do the same as he did with mine, I guarantee you that you wont be disappointed

youll never completely get rid of understeer with these cars as they are nose heavy with all the weight being in front of the axle but you can make it more managable

Bob these settings you advise above.

1.3 degrees camber front
0.55 degree camber rear
1.5 degree castor front

Is it negative or positive camber?

Gaz, yeah all negative.

Bob, I do all of the set-up in my garage with a camber board and a set of Dunlop tracking gauges that I picked up a while ago. Means I can tinker in my own time after work and try different settings, and has also meant that I've got a better idea of what's going on and how different things effect the handling.

Tbh I'm not sure if I'm searching for grip levels that are unrealistic and never going to happen, but I've got nothing to compare my car against.

Bob next time we're at track together I wouldn't mind doing a car swap for half a dozen laps so I can get an idea of what's achievable and where I stand at the moment, if that's ok with you?

yep that's fine with me ben
take her out and see what you think next time were on a trackday together

Are these settings in Degrees-Minutes or just straight Degrees?

my current setup - which yields a car that likes to rotate, has good turn in, and reduced understeer at the expense of wet straightline and braking traction.

front camber -2.7 degrees
rear camber -1.0 degrees
front toe out 0.05
rear toe out 0.05
caster 1.2 degrees with whiteline anti lift kit
6kg front 7kg rear bc racing coils
whiteline poly bushes around
rear whiteline bar full stiff setting
front modena
rear nismo 2way

i will be changing to approximately
3 - 3.5 degrees caster
11kg front 13kg rear springs
with double adjustable's that are appropriately valved shortly as well with the same above alignment
and a bumpsteer kit mounted under the knuckle

will report back when i get to drive it

do you do short sprint type curcuits with tight turns where your putting a lot of force on the springs?

as tbh I cant see how that could possibly work with those spring weights on a larger race circuit and if a road car it would be terrible as the springs would never really work , the car must be so stiff there would be no feedback to the driver at all

yes my setup at the moment is mainly for short type circuits with tight corners.
on 6kg and 7kg rates, i can get the car on two wheels through a tight corner.  


its just not enough rate to counter the cars natural roll, causing positive camber gain during roll in front hence understeer and outer edge tire wear

Plus the low speed compression valving on the bc's is terrible, the weight transfer is supremely slow.   In general the bc's aren't valved great for other than putting around town.

so yeah the 11kg/13kg would not be a good street setup, but a good short and big circuit setup.
it would be fine on small and medium bumps, but anythign like a pothole would be bone crushing
my bc racing at 6/7kg are terrible over any bump over an 1inch in size, the bc's just hit the bump stops and it hurts
so for me it would really be no change.

The new double adjustables should make the 11/13kg rates actually feel softer than the bc racing coils, plus it has more travel.  The bc racing is just a terrible strut, a properly valved and matched strut feels miles better.  i just find there's not a lot of choice out there for pulsars relative to the civics, s2000's, and miata's i race with.  I get it, its an old car with a small aftermarket.  So a lot of it has to be custom.  Which my new struts are.  

i've been lucky enough to have driven on several cars that run higher spring rates.  Some rates include 11/13kg rates on 900kg cars and 16/14kg rates on s2000's, 240sx's, etc with proper struts/shocks that include koni 2812's, motons, ast's, ohlins, and penskes.  All of which are in the neighborhood of 600-1400$ a corner for the strut/shock alone.

At the end of the day the good strut makes a night and day difference.  Its really difficult to explain how much a difference it makes until you've driven on a higher end strut back to back.   For example i've driven two civics back to back, one on 11/13kg rates on koni 2812's vs  7kg 8kg on koni yellow sports.  identical chassis, tires, ride height, only diff being the struts and spring rates.    the one on the 2812's felt considerably more comfortable, forgiving, and was softer more agile over bumps.  it almost felt like it had a softer rate.  now if you hit a massive pot hole 1.5-2inches deep both cars will bounce and crush your back, its just got no more travel and you've hit infinite spring on the bumpstop.

i think yes if you're using a xyz brand bc racing/megan/ksport coilover, then yes 11-13kg rates are far too high.
if you've got a good digressively or regressively valved strut thats built to handle higher spring rates then i'd always pick the higher rate for non street use specially if you're on an R compound tire.

just my opinion, and what i prefer.

I'll be testing them in a few weeks time, i'll report back either way if its too much rate i may drop it to 9kg/11kg rates
however i just feel 6/7 is far too little.  they're being rebuilt at ground control right now.

here's the 900kg civic on 11/13kg rates on a 140tw street tire


here is the strut i am installing
top plate that mounts above the chassis with caster and camber adjustment
double adjustable blue/red knobs
chromoly housings
ground control sleeves and eibach springs
im still toying with the idea of adding swift tender springs for more rebound travel on roll particularely in the rear

Cheers for the info mick

As you say different struts will have different handling characteristics and also depends on the intended use and driving style too

Those settings certainly seem to help with the sprints you are doing and I can see why those weight springs aren't really working and why you possibly need heavier weight springs as the weight transfer on those type of circuits is massive and as you said you are using the full strut travel and hitting on the stops

I used to run proflex struts and the difference in these compared to cheaper coilovers is massive but then your looking at almost 2k a corner so not really practical unless your absolutely minted.

Let us know how you get on with the new set up please